Recorded: July 31st, 2025

What if our phones were designed by carefully curating apps and features that are 'healthy' and excluding the ones that hijack our lives? What principles would guide that design? What apps would we keep and which would we eliminate?

This episode features Chris Kaspar, founder of Techless, the company behind the Wisephone. The Wisephone is a minimalist smartphone designed to promote healthier tech habits. Running a stripped-down version of Android, it excludes a web browser and social media apps to help users reclaim their time and attention.

Chris joins from the UK, where Techless is preparing to launch its first iOS product: Sage Mobile, an iPhone customized specifically for kids.

The conversation explores the philosophy of healthy tech and the practical challenges of bringing a device to market that deliberately limits functionality. Chris speaks candidly about the decisions that shaped Techless’s journey, including how to build a sustainable business without compromising on principle, how to find values-aligned investors, and how to navigate the tension between profit and social good.

The discussion also considers what it means to ride cultural trends versus trying to create them, and how to imagine a world where children are less exposed to rage-inducing content or easy-access pornography. At the same time, it asks how to balance these protections with the preservation of individual freedom.

Whether you're a parent, entrepreneur, technologist, or someone rethinking your relationship with your phone, this is a conversation worth hearing.